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IRC Log 2001-04-02 #documentation

approximately 20:00 GMT - 21:30 GMT

You're best off using a good CSS-enabled browser. (Like Mozilla ;) It's easier to read that way.

*** Mode change [+o Gerv] on channel #documentation by jmkg
Asa_food hello
*** Asa_food is now known as Asa
fantasai Good afternoon
jmkg evening
* jmkg watches Voyager finish
jmkg ok finished :)
*** PaulE (~chatzilla@216.164.72.61) has joined channel #documentation
jmkg hey hey!
*** endico (dawn@h-208-12-41-40.netscape.com) has joined channel #documentation
*** Mode change [+o endico] on channel #documentation by fantasai
endico rheet
jmkg lo
endico i haven't read your huge thread from over the weekend yet
jmkg I'm now reading it myself
endico thread(s)
jmkg hrm right read it
jmkg nice idea about the XUL
jmkg problem is I think turning off the security model on a site-by-site basis would require a new preference dialog and I can't think that Netscape would fund work on that
Gerv I've got news from mstolz on that.
PaulE can the editor component read from a URL?
Gerv PaulE: Read, yes.
PaulE even if you had to download an XPI, the number of authors is pretty small.
Gerv Wrie, I'm klesss ure about.
* jmkg tries to parse gerv's sentence
Gerv Write, I'm less sure about
Gerv (my PC was lagged)
endico gerv's hands were off by one i think
jmkg sorry my pc is lagged here
jmkg ugh
endico i have a whole bunch of specific questions about what kind of history keeping zope does but it will take a while to pose the questions properly and come up with examples
endico sigh
endico i've been meaning to do this for a while
Gerv endico: /msg Paul
Gerv He can answer while we are arguing ;-)
jmkg heh
jmkg um
jmkg I have a question: if there's a page on disk /foo/bar/moo.
jmkg er
endico i need to do a real email
* jmkg tries again without a enter ket
PaulE endico: as for history...
jmkg I have a question: if there's a page on disk /foo/bar/moo can we give it a 'virtual url', something like that stuff about meta data?
PaulE zope keeps previous revisions of an object/URI/document.
Gerv jmkg: There is no "on disk" :-)
Gerv There is only URI :-)
PaulE you can browse through previous revisions, undo the transaction that changed a revision (and the catalog index).
jmkg yeah i'm having a hard time figuring out which alternate universe we're in
PaulE you can also compare two revisions or move a revision to the head.
fantasai Aye, but does Zope resolve URIs by its Zope path or can one create a URI field to use instead?
Gerv Can you import CVS logs? /me hopes
jmkg fantasai: right
jmkg what fantasai said
PaulE fantasai: the URI is the object identifier.
PaulE this is the Zope path. still not sure on the question. :^)
fantasai Can one separate the URI from the object hierarchy? So that they are not dependant on one another?
jmkg so foo in the object bar could have the URI /foo/bar if we say so, otherwise something else we give it?
PaulE fantasai: explain the problem you'd like to solve.
fantasai Given object x/y/z, can I give it the URI a/b?
PaulE jmkg: containment is the (/foo/bar) is the way to retrieve an object.
PaulE however... you can easily construct other objects or hierarchies, such as topics in the CMF (content management framework).
jmkg right now we have /projects/mailnews/performance. if we put in zope terms a folder projects/ and in that mailnews/ and in that performance, but then decided that it would be more sensible to _access_ these using the URI /performance/mailnews is that possible without moving the page in the zope object heirarchy?
PaulE i'm not sure what a/b buys you? What experience for the site visitor are you trying to gain?
PaulE are you trying to solve the reorganization problem?
fantasai Well, I'm thinking it might be easier from a maintenence perspective to organize certain files one way,
PaulE jmkg: yes.
PaulE jmkg: do you want to that on a case-by-case basis, or some massive reparenting?
fantasai but have the URI with another hierarchy
jmkg yes, I'm thinking that in terms of backend heirachy we're going to have teams of people - e.g. mailnews, and they would probably like to use their own heirachy within a mailnews zope folder, but that does not neccessarily mean that we would want visitors to access it that way
fantasai jmkg: exactly
Gerv For example, their FAQ could be in their folder, but accessed under /faqs/.
jmkg yeah
jmkg i.e. give a zope object it's URI, regradless where zope knows it it
jmkg i.e. give a zope object it's URI, regradless where zope knows it is
PaulE gerv: would it be OK for it to be *listed* under FAQs, but the actual URL be elsewhere?
PaulE I think you'd want to have items appear in multiple places in some cases.
* Gerv shrugs
jmkg PaulE: the point is we don't know yet :)
Gerv I was just producing an example :-) I'm not worried about this issue.
PaulE gerv: agreed, on to bigger things...
jmkg I'm not worried, it's just something we need to be "aware of" if it's a limitation
PaulE actually, i have the toughest question to answer!
Gerv Well, if it's a limitation, it's a limitation of the current setup too :-)
* fantasai is completely against multiple URIs for a single file unless there's a really good reason for it
jmkg true
* Gerv tends to agree with fantasai
*** Mode change [+o PaulE] on channel #documentation by Asa
*** Gerv has changed the topic on #documentation to "Quiet please. Meeting in progress."
PaulE fantasai: i agree, one URI per resource. however, a URI can show up in multiple areas. this happens in dmoz all the time.
fantasai BTW, I did a bit of a writeup on my "URI philosophy", if you want to call it that.
PaulE my question...what are the web server, operating system, and web hosting decisions for this project?
Gerv PaulE: There are two options here.
Gerv The first is to use the current setup.
jmkg actually it would be helpful, if not relevant to current discussion, if zope know the urls of things and thus if something changed, it updated referencing urls
Gerv This probably means Netscape IS (or whatever they are called now) get to choose the web server and OS.
jmkg s/know/knew/
fantasai http://fantasai.tripod.com/Mozilla/2001/reorg/OnURIs.txt
Gerv It also means much pain trying to get things reconfigured.
Gerv The other option is to accept your kind offer.
Gerv But that would require approval from staff@mozilla.org.
Gerv Such approval might be got, I think, if we were to ask.
Gerv They were making encouraging noises last time I sat in on a staff meeting.
Gerv Endico?
jmkg could Netscape IS not donate a 'naked' box for us to install things at leisure?
Gerv If it's inside the firewall, they manage it.
Gerv I'm certain that must be the policy :-)
Gerv Even without asking...
jmkg yeah i understand that
Gerv Giving random people root on a box inside your firewall is Bad.
jmkg although having to have a webserver serving from outside the organisation's network doesn't reflect too well on the organisation's competency either
jmkg "we can't run it, so they do"
Gerv jmkg: Which organisation are you referring to?
jmkg Netscape in this case
PaulE my first biggest question is Apache.
Gerv jmkg: mozilla != netscape :-)
Gerv We already outsource cvs-mirror.mozilla.org to Sourceforge
PaulE we *can* integrate with iPlanet, but it is something not too many people do any more.
jmkg indeed, however cvs-mirror has a legitament reason for being on another bit of fibre
Gerv jmkg: mozilla.org is loaned IS resources by different people.
Gerv Not having all our eggs in one basket is a _good_ thing.
Gerv Particularly given that zope.org are likely to be much better at sorting stuff than Netscape.
Gerv Do you know how long we've been waiting to get some newsgroups renamed, for goodness sake?
Gerv Six months!
jmkg fair enough
jmkg heh
jmkg yeah
* Gerv calms down
Gerv Paul: re: Apache.
Gerv If you want Apache, we'll make Apache happen.
Gerv By the way, I take it your offer to host still stands?
jmkg afaik dawn was going to look into apache
* jmkg looks at endico
Gerv endico has been idle 17 minutes and 47 seconds
endico let me state for the record (again) that the red mozilla is our logo image. period
Gerv endico: Thanks for that :-)
Gerv For everything?
* endico is starting to read gerv's mail
PaulE gerv: the offer was tentative, but it stands.
endico yes. don't even think about using the green one
PaulE gerv: i talked with the hosting company and they're interested.
endico some project pages have green mozillas and i don't care
Gerv endico: Right. I can squash that argument in n.p.m.general then.
jmkg haha
jmkg ugh lag
Gerv PaulE: Do you need more assurances from us before going further forward?
jmkg endico: first definitive descision made so far!
PaulE gerv: further in which direction? towards hosting it at zope.org?
Gerv (But tangential to the reason for the meeting :-)
Gerv Yes.
* fantasai opens up notebook
fantasai We need a way of specifying content-types.
fantasai Zope, I believe, does automatic association by file extension
* Gerv worries that he thought fantasai meant a computer notebook
PaulE gerv: nope, i can get the ball rolling to find out how to make it official.
fantasai gerv: no, I like paper and pencil :)
Gerv Cheers.
Gerv When you get blocked on needing more confirmation from us, let us know, and we'll see what we can do.
PaulE gerv: what if the offer includes a logo saying "hosting donate by" or "powered by" on the home page?
Gerv PaulE: Seems fine to me.
Gerv We already credit Sourceforge somewhere.
Gerv But that might need running past someone more important.
Gerv Powered by buttons are cool :-)
fantasai mpt made provisions for a "sponsors" page, so we can put that there
PaulE fantasai: don't the current files have proper extensions?
fantasai Yes
Gerv PaulE: Yep.
fantasai But they won't when we're done reorganizing the URI tree
jmkg indeed
PaulE hmm, why would the extensions disappear?
fantasai Because we're getting rid of them.
jmkg because They Are Bad [tm]
Gerv Tim Berners-Lee wrote a paper on why extensions are bad.
* Gerv shrugs
jmkg PaulE: visitors will access /projects/mailnews/foo not /projects/mailnews/foo.html
Gerv I don't see it as a big issue. It's nice not to have them, but if it breaks stuff...
PaulE hey gerv, how did this get in your pages:
PaulE :^)
Gerv Because I took them over from elig@eazel.com (as he is now) :-)
PaulE jmkg: wow, it's pleasant to find others that understand the evil of extensions.
fantasai news://news.mozilla.org/3A4AC5DC.1E684AC5@escape.com
fantasai Scroll to the bottom
fantasai (It's a reply to one of mpt's posts)
PaulE jmkg: you can specify this in perhaps a meta tag.
jmkg yeah well when you code some content with xml, process it with PHP, and output in either HTML or XHTML you begin to ask if extensions are worth it =)
PaulE however, if extensions are removed, there will be a lot of repairing in the hyperlinks and external links will break.
fantasai You can't specify extensions in a meta tag if its a GIF
endico are you guys talking about getting a server on sourceforge so you can move www.mozilla.org there? i wouldnt' talk to them yet until we decide we really want to move to zope. or are you still looking for a test site?
Gerv META HTTP-EQUIV="content-type" value="application/vnd.mozilla.xul+xml" :-)
Gerv endico: No.
Gerv endico: zope.org are tentatively offering to host.
endico how ab
endico er
Gerv They have the skills and the expertise :-)
jmkg PaulE: that why we want to do the extensions removal, and reorg all in one go (visitor side)
PaulE fantasai: nope, I meant specify some concept of type in the meta tag, such as "engineering document".
fantasai d'you mean in those Zope object attributes (like the title)?
PaulE jmkg: got it.
PaulE fantasai: the CMF maps META elements to zope properties, particularly Dublin Core.
endico i have an idea for something entirely new that we could use, and I think zope would be a great platform for it. We have a huge need for end-user docs, but don't want to spend time doing it. If they could write themselves, that would be great and i wouldn't mind providing a place for voluneers to do so. to that end i set up this. http://dsl081-068-125-sfo1.dsl-isp.net/mozilla/newindex.html
fantasai But a GIF doesn't *have* elements
PaulE it's one way to teach it what type something is, meaning file extension or content-type don't matter.
Gerv He's making the point that Zope needs to know what content-type to send.
jmkg endico: yeah wouldn't mind one for developers to document their work in too :)
endico i used slashcode, but i think zope would be better. zope would make it easier to move stuff from the 'slashdot article' stage to 'polished document' stage
fantasai gerv: That's the problem I stated in the first place--we need a way to do that
fantasai If Zope knows enough to look for a tag, then it knows it's either HTML or XHTML
fantasai Which both get sent as text/html anyway
PaulE ok, what's the next topic?
fantasai Can Zope look in an "attribute" of a given object to determine the content typ?
Gerv Site design contest.
Gerv We should have one.
Gerv It should be judged.
endico no!
PaulE actually i'd like to do a straw poll. if you've tinkered with zope, give a +1
Gerv endico: You get to judge :-)
PaulE fantasai: by attribute, do you mean walk the DOM?
endico design contests like that only draw geeks, not actual designers
endico then people feel bad when all designes get rejected
Gerv This way, we might get some good ideas, but we can ditch them all if they are all terrible.
Gerv Oh, OK.
Gerv Do you have someone lined up?
Gerv ;-)
endico the throbber design contest is how we got stuck with the current ugly throbber
Gerv I think it's cool :-)
Gerv But maybe I'm in a minority.
fantasai PaulIE: I mean like the Title of a Zope object
jmkg you mean that wasn't a quick hack by the netscape UE team?
endico that stupid blue M is why we have the mess in the 'boring and ugly' bug
endico i just did a new design
endico http://dsl081-068-125-sfo1.dsl-isp.net/mozilla/newindex.html
* Gerv shrugs
Gerv Simple and neat :-)
Gerv Looks good to me.
* fantasai gets dizzy
PaulE fantasai: sure, how would you like it to work?
endico i think with the feedback from the people who have already contributed we'll do fine
fantasai endico: are there supposed to be so many boxes?
fantasai PaulE: Since Zope won't be able to discern the content-type otherwise, it should read from a 'content-type' attribute
fantasai and send that
fantasai That means whoever is adding the file needs to specify the content type,
fantasai but thats better than having extensions on the files.
PaulE fantasai: do you mean the incoming content-type on an upload/ftp put/webdav put, or the outgoing?
jmkg uh we don't have to specify a content-type for each image do ew?
jmkg er we
fantasai outgoing
endico fantasai: i think i count 14 boxes. i've also been playing with versions with border=0 boxes
Gerv Images are less of an issue.
Gerv They aren't usually referenced directly/
* Gerv checks W3C
PaulE fantasai: i think we can safely get rid of the file extensions. most operating systems can use magic to sniff it out.
fantasai endico: there's so much on the front page! Who's going to read it all?
Gerv Nope, W3C don't use extensions on images either.
fantasai I've been around mozilla for a year now, and I still get lost on the front page layout.
*** mindlace (~mindlace@216.164.72.55) has joined channel #documentation
Gerv It is a bit cluttered...
endico fantasai: but everyone has been complaining that there wasn't enough! besides, the important stuff is at the top where you should be able to see it without scrolling
Gerv Who has been claiming that there wasn't enough on the front page?
* Gerv is surprised
fantasai Simplify. *please*
Asa I like that front page
endico also, with that, we can get rid of the vertical menu and make the rest of the web pages use the horizontal wrapper
fantasai PaulE: Can the OS sniff it out and report to Zope?
fantasai I think it would be best if one could override any auto-sniffing.
fantasai in case it gets sniffed incorrectly
jmkg er I think we could do better on out front page
Gerv jmkg: Than endico's? Or than the current one?
PaulE fantasai: i believe so.
endico this design *is* simpler. to find all tht info is a lot a lot more difficult with the current page
jmkg for example, "Using Mozilla is... Netscape 6, Galeon, Skipstone, foo, bar, etc"
PaulE endico: one thing to remember, you can offer multiple "skins" on the server side and let people choose.
jmkg current one
* fantasai wonders whether mpt ever got the finalized meeting time
Gerv NSPR and PKI do _not_ deserve a spot on the front page.
Gerv mpt's probably still asleep :-)
Gerv jmkg: No one's arguing about that :-)
fantasai IMO, 3 columns is too much
fantasai News should slide down.
Gerv fantasai: W3.org and zope.org both have three.
endico PaulE: here's an alternate skin i was playing with (*puke*) http://dsl081-068-125-sfo1.dsl-isp.net/mozilla/newindex2.html
fantasai But not with content.
fantasai For the most part, theirs are just menus
jmkg endico: I like that
Gerv Guys - we are not in a front page site design meeting.
jmkg the front page is good
Gerv If we can agree that endico will sort something, that's fine.
jmkg but I agree with gerv :)
Gerv We can argue about this at leisure :-)
Gerv Point 2: All content is imported from CVS as-is, and then moved around inside zope.
Gerv (rather than trying to move it as we import it.)
Gerv This seems sane to me.
fantasai agreed
Gerv So basically, all we need to work out is how to do the import.
Gerv PaulE: Have you had a look at that tarball? :-)
* Gerv sent PaulE a tarball of a bit of www.mozilla.org
Gerv (the CVS version)
PaulE on point 2. guess that means a script will have to pluck extensions and clean up hyperlinks (removing extensions) on the way in, right?
Gerv By the way, who is mindlace?
Gerv PaulE: Yes. :-)
Gerv It will be slightly non-trivial.
PaulE gerv: yep, that's how i saw the generator was Visual Page.
fantasai I think we can keep the extensions until we move the files
Gerv What do you think? Can we work with what we've got?
mindlace i dunno if i can talk but I am the zope.org guy
PaulE when i get a moment i'll start the process of bulk loading it.
PaulE hi ethan (mindlace).
Gerv mindlace: Ah :-)
Gerv Cool :-)
PaulE ethan is the zope.org community liason, zope.org webmaster, and cluster man.
Gerv Paul: Don't start loading that tarball! It's missing huge chunks, even within itself.
PaulE dunno if it's better to remove the extensions before loading or after...
Gerv Implementation detail :-)
jmkg PaulE: have you looked at the cvs stuff yet? online or checked-out?
PaulE gerv: no, i just meant loading it into a local zope/cmf to see how it looked. :^)
fantasai If you move after, the links only change once.
Gerv Oh, OK :-)
PaulE jmkg: gerv sent me a zip file.
Gerv fantasai: We aren't going to release it to the world until we are finished, so that's not an issue.
jmkg PaulE: yaeh but is the wrapper + perl in that zip file?
Gerv But it might be easier to do a search and replace/mass rename when it's still a bunch of files on disk.
Gerv jmkg: No.
Gerv He's not trying to build the site, just look at some content.
Gerv In unwrapped form.
Gerv We need fairly presentation-free content for this to work well.
Gerv I think our content is, on the whole, pretty presentation-free.
Gerv (when unwrapped.)
jmkg i wonder if there's much need to create a table of the existing files?
jmkg something we can map to new URIs
mindlace we can have an extention sniffer that just looks for the same file w/o extention
Gerv jmkg: Why? We import it, we move it around. Bingo - new URIs. Assuming we don't delete anything, nothing gets lost.
PaulE gerv is right. i don't believe, thus, that i need to look at the wrapper.
mindlace so even bookmarks won't break
Gerv mindlace: we could do, but many URLs are going to break anyway, so it's hardly worth it.
Gerv A lot of stuff will move, I predict.
jmkg mindlace: the files are moving too
mindlace ah, ok
Gerv (As agreed with Paul, we keep "key" URLs using server-side redirects.)
fantasai jmkg: I'm working on getting a database up to map URIs and various other bits of useful info
PaulE ethan had a question this morning...he needs to upgrade the software on moz.zope.org. can he blow away what's there?
Gerv fantasai: What does that database do, again?
jmkg yes
Gerv yes
mindlace ok, almost done...
jmkg i was going to ask how recent the moz.zope.org was actually
Gerv We'll need to re-add accounts, though, but that should be no problem.
PaulE then i propose that we (digital creations) do the following:
PaulE 1. upgrade zope and the cmf
fantasai gerv: It's not much--just a bunch of records holding the current path, future path, categories, and other stuff.
PaulE 2. create a skin or two based on endico's layout and the existing one
Gerv fantasai: Why do we need it, though?
PaulE 3. bulk load a bunch of data
PaulE create a couple of topics (virtual folders)
fantasai You can use it or not
PaulE 4. help you folks tinker around with the results
fantasai gerv: It's up to you. For me, it's good practice.
mindlace well, just need to blow away any portal, not everything. user accounts should stay.
Gerv mindlace: Clear it out :-)
Gerv PaulE: Sounds good to me.
Gerv fantasai: Fair enough :-)
PaulE mindlace is right, we created your accounts *above* the portal (cmf site) folders.
PaulE so the functionality we'd be demoing:
PaulE 1. Switchable skins (allows tinkering with new layouts, or a moz-enabled layout)
Gerv Yes :-) Switchable skins means a skin which shows Moz off bigtime! :-)
PaulE 2. Improved site navigation (topical organizations, what's new since last login, etc.)
PaulE 3. Separation of presentation and logic
PaulE 4. Some workflow approval stuff
PaulE 5. Authoring from various clients (webdav, ftp, perhaps mozilla, etc.)
Gerv (and web-based authoring)
PaulE mindlace: can moz.zope.org be reached via ftp?
jmkg how about seperation of content from presentation and logic? to me they are tightly binded but need to be seperated somehow
PaulE jmkg: sorry, that's what i meant to type!
fantasai jmkg: what do you mean by logic?
jmkg :-)
Gerv PaulE: That sounds very sound to me :-)
jmkg fantasai: programming
mindlace not now but i can make it so
PaulE for more info: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ZPT/FrontPage
Gerv We really do appreciate this :-)
PaulE with these templates, DOM parts of an HTML document can be viewed through a server template at run time.
PaulE the template itself is valid html with sample content that is replaced at render time.
jmkg PaulE: ok and now for the big test... will Pavlov and BenGooger (Netscape devs) be about to *use* it? :-)
jmkg plus of course their managers
Gerv jmkg: Don't see why not :-) They can read our page of idiot-proof instructions (to be written) and paste into an HTML form, can't they?
Gerv jmkg: Can they use CVS? ;-)
jmkg they can also deliver crashing code
Gerv jmkg: if they break stuff, we can back it out :-)
Gerv This is not a big issue.
Gerv Paul: The plan sounds excellent.
Gerv So, as I read your comments, the ball is currently in your court.
Gerv Is that right
Gerv ?
PaulE yep. :^)
Gerv And it comes back to us when you've imported the content?
PaulE I guess about all we need is for you folks to keep the decision moving along about where this puppy will run, should it become the new site.
Gerv You need a full copy of the CVS tree, don't you?
Gerv Endico? Asa? Can this go on the staff meeting agenda?
PaulE gerv: fantasai sent me a URL with a bugzilla link, presumably instructing me on anonymous cvs.
jmkg yeah
Gerv PaulE: Er... OK :-)
Gerv Does it really work, then?
fantasai I've done it
PaulE if anyone here is interested in downloading the s/w for how this will work, cmf.zope.org.
Gerv Cool.
Gerv I'm definitely reading the docs :-)
PaulE and join the mailing list if you want some more background. (though more email is painful. :^)
jmkg i read the docs about two months ago
endico Gerv: what exactly should go on the agenda?
Gerv Whether mozilla.org would, in principle, be amenable to zope.org taking care of the hosting of www.mozilla.org (when we move to a Zope-based site.)
Gerv The contact for questions being PaulE :-)
mindlace actually for questions about hosting details
mindlace mindlace@digicool.com is prolly a better bet
mindlace as long as they're technical questions.
Gerv Sure :-)
Gerv endico: Is that OK?
mindlace um, yah. moz.zope.org upgraded.
Gerv mindlace: You da man.
jmkg time to polish my shoes, interview tomorrow, bbiaf
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Gerv Oops.
Gerv No more PaulE.
mindlace heh... mozIRC crashed on paul
endico Gerv: i think that's the wrong order. we want to see how the prototype works and see if we want to switch first. also, if there might be machine space to host it on here if digital creations doesn't really want to
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mindlace he'll be back in a sec
PaulE sorry about that, i'm using mozilla for the irc client and it crashed. :^(
Gerv
Gerv endico: OK then.
Gerv We'll leave it for a bit.
mindlace well, I dunno about DC, but i would personally be quite happy to host it
PaulE i tried to copy the conversation and paste it into mozilla editor. poof.
endico PaulE: how excited were you guys to host www.mozilla.org? did you offer only because we dont' have space on the current server? or did you really want to host it?
endico mozilla is so crashy lately
mindlace we've got a cluster set up here that I'm itching to scale :)
PaulE so, does anybody have a transcript they can post to the mailing list?
endico mindlace: are you at digital creations?
mindlace that I am
fantasai PaulE: I'm logging
fantasai D'you want me to send a copy now?
mindlace "here" is a euphemism, of course.
PaulE fantasai: thanks. i just wanted to be reminded what we promised. :^)
PaulE ok, i think we've accomplished a lot. any parting questions?
PaulE fantasai: yes, please. thanks!
fantasai If a Perl script works with files, does it need to be modified to work on Zope?
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PaulE fantasai: thanks to a deal we did with ActiveState, you can use perl and zope together.
fantasai So if I open FILE, "file.txt", it works?
PaulE but if you wanted to use perl externally and pump data into zope, that's pretty frighteningly easy.
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PaulE uhh, that's different.
mindlace its all part of the "Parrot" initiative
PaulE fantasai: what do you want the perl script to do?
endico AIEEE! mozilla is so buggy
fantasai Nothing, I just wanted to know if any existing scripts would need to be changed
mindlace iirc you'd have to access the "files" differently but otherwise it would work.
mindlace assuming the files were in the ZODB
PaulE hmmm, probably. what kind of perl stuff is under www.mozilla.org? that is, where are the dynamic parts?
Gerv PaulE: There aren't any :-)
Gerv I'm not sure what fantasai is on about.
PaulE :^)
fantasai I'm just curious
mindlace why, right here in the channel, paul
PaulE ok, i gotta bail. ethan, are you sticking around?
Gerv mindlace: Do you have, uh, a press release about your involvement with Parrot?
mindlace yah, ok
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* Gerv notes PaulE is on Win2K.
Gerv That could be his problem... ;-)
mindlace Gerv: we're in our quiet period since we got acquired by activeState :))
* endico saw the parrot article on /. yesterday and thought it was an april fool's joke
mindlace it was
mindlace sorry
Gerv :-)
endico ok, now i feel better
mindlace but the perl thing is real
Gerv fantasai: Have you definitely got a log?
* fantasai looks at log
fantasai Yes.
endico all kids love log
fantasai Sounds like a math teacher's threat.
fantasai :)
fantasai Another thing..
fantasai If we have multiple formats for a given file
fantasai (e.g. HTML, DocBook, and PDF)
* Gerv goes back to doing other stuff
Gerv Good meeting, people :-)
fantasai How are they distinguished in the URI?
mindlace if it exists primarily for download
mindlace you probably want to preserve the extention for the sake of stupid clients
mindlace Otherwise there's lots of ways to handle it
mindlace it could be one object that presents multiple views of itself or each could just have a different id
mindlace ok, it's time for me to give myself a slightly greater chance of getting lung cancer.
mindlace I'm really looking forward to working with mozilla.org !
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